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Wednesday, July 22, 2009
There's been a couple of poorly written and divisive articles written about the rampant racism that exists in the white gay community and the homophobia that exists in the black community, much of which does absolutely nothing in my opinion to bridge the divide, instead it further separates two groups of wounded and oppressed people who seem to be battling it out for a gold medal in the oppression olympics.
"It doesn't matter who was oppressed first or oppressed the longest, what matters is no group of people are ever oppressed".
So what is it going to take for black LGBT's to:
1) Stop waiting for white organizations to "reach out" to us to do the work that we're more than capable of doing
2) Come out and start challenging the homophobia within our own community
3)Stop wearing the terms closeted, discreet, private, and down-low as a badge of honor
4) Stop succumbing to the pressure to choose one part of our identity over the other as if our race and sexuality doesn't make us who we are
5) Stop pretending as if the gains and setbacks of the LGBT civil rights movement will only affect the lives of white gay & lesbian Americans as reason not to get involved.
Now I know none of the above applies to you, but this is a real problem, and not a single commentary written by any of the perhaps well meaning individuals (who managed to get their 5 minutes in the spotlight) proposed any solutions. And I'm personally sick of people rising to the occasion to fan the flames of racism and homophobia. So what say you?
Don't hold back. Discuss.
26 Comments:
Well, I'll be the first to fan the flames here. Why must black gays be the first to "approach/cater to/sumbit" to the other side? I really am tired of this. It's as if they are waiting for us to bow down to them. It really doesn't appear that they are interested in blacks. The "divide" is working just fine for white gays. Futhermore, the self-hatred (yeah, I said it) in the black gay community is the problem. So many of us want to be with/sex/love the white man (in the gay and straight world). I also tire of this as well. Let's truly build up or own strong black community. We should be the group that is envied and admired...not them. But, since so many of us long to fcuk/spend eternity with a white dude, it'll never happen. Of course, it's the same way with Asian men too.
July 22, 2009 2:47 PM
3)Stop wearing the terms closeted, discreet, private, and down-low as a badge of honor.
Now you speaking truth to power. I get sick and tired of black gay men or gay men in general talking about I am discreet, private, and on the downlow as if this state of being isn't in relation to their oppressed and marginalized status in society.
July 22, 2009 3:21 PM
Thank you Darian for posting this! It's almost like you said everything I feel. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I am a huge fan of your blog , and I am so glad your opinion is different from that of some black LGBTs who want to fan the flames like the previous anonymous comment. Discrimination is discrimination. It's all wrong. Black LGBTs need to step up to the plate and stop blaming whites. If you have time to go to Miami Sizzle, you have time to go to a marraige equality benefit. No t, no shade.
July 22, 2009 11:50 PM
PREACH IT TEACH IT AND TELL IT! YOUR TRUTH WILL SET EVERYONE FREE FROM THE BONDAGE WE PUT UPON OURSELVES.
July 23, 2009 8:32 AM
so many snow queens, so little time...
July 23, 2009 9:33 AM
@Anonymous-
Would it be to much to ask you to actually leave an articulate comment on the post instead of taking the low road by labeling either myself (who has been involved with another black man for years now) or an entire group of people as "snow queens"? Surely you can do better.
July 23, 2009 9:47 AM
clearly, the MAJORITY of black gays (out and closeted) do not agree with you people. racism is rampant in the gay community. who wants to support marriage when other "civil rights" are higher on the agenda for many black gays. go ahead and remain clueless. no progress will be made anyway.
July 23, 2009 10:01 AM
@Anonymous
And did you poll the "majority" of black gays to reach that thwarted conclusion? Tell that to the thousands of black and latino couples who have married or wish to get married.
And this post is not just about marriage equality. It's about black gays doing the heavy lifting necessary to create the kind of change that we want to see in our own community. No one is denying that racism is rampant in the gay community, I said as much in the post. However, that should not be the reason why we fail to create the kind of world we wish to live in.
Your closing line said it all, "no progress will be made anyway." It's this exact attitude that packs out clubs and black gay prides all over the country but when there is something being held to uplift and benefit the community as a whole we fail to show up.
July 23, 2009 10:17 AM
Why do black gays worry about what white gays think of them?
Someone, please answer this question.
July 23, 2009 11:22 AM
I understand that this may be a controversial thread and we all have different opinions.
However, DO NOT THINK FOR ONE MINUTE THAT YOU WILL COME ON THIS BLOG & POST ANTI-GAY OR RACIST SLURS AND EXPECT FOR ME TO APPROVE THEM! IT WON'T HAPPEN.
This is a forum for intelligent discussion and if your brain size won't allow you to construct a statement void of hate speech then move on to to the next blog.
July 23, 2009 12:39 PM
I agree and disagree.
It seems like black gays want to be gay without actually being gay. What I mean by that is simply that they want all the gay sex they can stand but not deal with the issue of combatting discrimination and etc (the proverbial, "cake and eat it too" thing). Furthermore, we do pass the buck too much. It's either the black community's fault that we cannot come out or the white gay community's fault for not being inclusive.So, until this culture of apathy ceases and desists black LGBT's are going nowhere in a hurry.
If I hear one more black gay man say, "Oh, it's my business what I do in the bedroom" I'm going to scream. Being gay is not just about the bedroom...it is about the right to be what you are without fear of reprisal.
Yet, on the otherhand, the entire onus cannot be placed squarely on the shoulders of blacks. The gay community is extremely racist, in most cases unintentionally, and it should really take it's time to figure out WHY it is the way that it is.
July 23, 2009 4:25 PM
I just want to take what some commenters have said and ask several questions.
Anonymous 7-22-09, 2:47 pm said:
"So many of us want to be with/sex/love the white man (in the gay and straight world)."
Anonymous 7-23-09, 9:33 am said:
"so many snow queens, so little time..."
Question:
I've heard soooo MANY black gay men obsess over interracial gay relationships over the years. Trust me, black gay men were obsessing over this back in the 1970s (when I first came out) AND THEY'RE STILL DOING IT. What does a black gay man who prefers the company of nonblack men have to do with the choices YOU make in YOUR life?
Anonymous 7-23-09, 10:01 am said:
"racism is rampant in the gay community."
Question:
I often hear black gay people/bloggers say this. What RACIST things are white gays doing to black gays that impacts their/our lives on a daily basis in a negative way? Give specific examples?
Toddy English said:
"The gay community is extremely racist, in most cases unintentionally, and it should really take it's time to figure out WHY it is the way that it is."
Question:
How can this so-called gay community be "inclusive" if most black gays, especially black gay men, REFUSE to be openly gay? How can it be inclusive if black gays REFUSE to participate in the mainstream gay community/movement?
Just my opinion:
Since most black LGBTs live in the so-called black community, I would say that the homophobia of straight black people (including family members) is FAR more hurtful to black gays than "white gay racism".
July 23, 2009 8:02 PM
Wow - well said Darian. Inspirational.
I'm so, so, so sick and tired of the haterade from both sides of the black/white "divide".
As far as I'm concerned, there's divisive, racist, ugly people, black and white, and then there's the rest of us, getting on with it, living and loving.
Sadly, like Keith Boykin's blog, your blog seems to attract nutjob black racists like moths to a flame. This mentality of "pro-black means anti-white."
These people need to think about that statement and what it really means. To wrongs don't make a right et cetera.
But I'm not even going to try and debate it with them - they're idiots (and the first comment on this thread takes first prize in the Racist Jerk-Off of the Year awards).
We're ALL in this together, and there's no point tarring everyone with the same brush. There's a name for that sort of behaviour, and it starts with R.
Well said Darian.
July 23, 2009 11:36 PM
NO ONE CAN DENY that racism is alive and well. However, what I have to say has absolutely nothing to do with whites and everything to do with US because there's a clear divide within the black community thats bigger than the one in the gay community. How can we address racism and how others treat us when we treat eachother the same way or worse? I truly believe that most of our social issues are a direct result of the broken family structure and self hate behaviors that we learn at home. A lot of what we experience in our adult lives are self fulfilled prohecies. Like it or not, we are an immature people with bigger fish to fry. We are broken and should all know by now that when it comes to blacks the good have to suffer with the bad. So with that said, the Harvard grads have to reach out to the high school drop outs. We have to all share the burdon. We must stop being so judgmental, set better examples for eachother, and really do more to erase the barriers and divisions within our own and actually become a real community. Then maybe we'll be ready to take on gay rights issues and be self reliant enough to let go of the fear, live out loud and REALLY not care about what others think of us.
July 23, 2009 11:45 PM
If you consider the first anonymous post to be from a "nutjob black racist" and also consider the post to "take first prize in the Racist Jerk-Off of the Year award," I think it actually says a lot about you. I clearly touched a tender spot in your life. Regardless, you need to examine yourself. Yes, I am a racist for preserving and protecting Black Gay Men. We need more like me in this world. With the likes of you and others slamming me, it's a hard battle...but it will continue!
July 24, 2009 12:17 AM
Tony Randolph Hunter is a 37 black gay man who was murdered last year by a BLACK thug in Washington D.C.
The black thug, who offered a "gay panic defense", will serve a MAXIMUM of 6 months in jail (a MISDEMEANOR) for murdering a black gay man. The black thug's "gay panic defense" was that Mr. Hunter touched his penis and buttocks so he attacked him. Tony's friend, who was with him that night, said THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. The officials chose to believe the thug over Mr. Hunter's friend.
If not for a few WHITE gay activists, nobody who actually matters would be making a stink about this appalling development.
Where are the black gay activists in Washington D.C.? Where are the THOUSANDS of black gay men who live in and around the Washington D.C. area?
Are black gay men missing in action because of the lack of "inclusiveness", "snow queens" or "white gay racism"? I don't think so. Black gay men are the biggest cowards in the world and the "lack of inclusiveness", "snow queens" and all the rest has nothing to do with it.
July 24, 2009 9:01 AM
I guess anyone who isn't into interracial sex/dating is a nutjob.
We live in a crazy world.
July 24, 2009 9:24 AM
((How can this so-called gay community be "inclusive" if most black gays, especially black gay men, REFUSE to be openly gay? How can it be inclusive if black gays REFUSE to participate in the mainstream gay community/movement?))
Well, I am very active in the gay community (I refuse to call it "The white gay community" because it includes everyone). I've been the ONLY African American in the room sometimes and I'll be the first to say that many white gays and lesbians are clueless about black people (just as much as their heterosexual counterparts).
It really does go BOTH ways. Both communities need to get their act together. The gay community at large is not exempt because not all black gay men are on the DL and regularly trek to Atlanta or DC for the next big orgy.
Some of us make ourselves present and still feel like the outsider looking in.
July 24, 2009 11:44 AM
LOL @ Anon...
Yeah, because hatred and division and separtism will solve the world's problems.
So whilst you and your friends the KKK carry on with carving up humanity based upon tired old historical divisions, the rest of us - the intelligent, the progressive, the inclusive - can get on with getting on.
I realise it's hard for you - you're clearly American - but, you know, it's not an African American/WASP world. There's a lot more to it than meets your desperately microscopic world view.
Grow up and open your mind. You're a cliched joke.
July 25, 2009 12:17 AM
Garcon, you are indeed the cliched joke. When you are ready to make a post relevant to the subject, look me up. How are things across the pond? Oh, okay then. You see, I've been there. So, I know you really shouldn't try and pass judgement on what's going on here in the States.
July 25, 2009 7:58 AM
@the first anonymous comment.
". Why must black gays be the first to "approach/cater to/sumbit" to the other side?"
Because there are black gays that keep complaining about the divide in the community and the lack of inclusiveness. If you want to be included you're going to have to step up to the plate, otherwise they need to stop complaining when they are doing nothing to help bring this divide. It's pointless and only hurts both sides.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Someone needs to step up and if black gays are complaining about it, it should be them.
"So many of us want to be with/sex/love the white man (in the gay and straight world)."
"But, since so many of us long to fcuk/spend eternity with a white dude, it'll never happen."
What does this even has to do with creating a stronger black gay community?
1) You can still date a white man and help/be in the community.
2) Most black gay men I've met want to have nothing to do with white man besides a f**k. I don't see how this exactly makes the community stronger either.
"Let's truly build up or own strong black community. We should be the group that is envied and admired...not them."
That's a nice idea but it's people in the black gay community that are asking for help in real life. Your comment reads like it's white gay people begging to be helped by black gay people and not the other way around.
______
I'm really over the selfishness and narrow mindness of some black gay people. As I've said here before there are other races here besides black and white. I know many people of other colors that tire of obnoxious gay black people framing views as black vs. white silencing everyone else that may have a different opinion.
I'm a person who's heavily against white gay racism but recently I'm getting tired of the same rehashed crap over and over with no one doing anything.
If you do not want to reach out then just shut up.
July 26, 2009 11:10 AM
You said: "Your comment reads like it's white gay people begging to be helped by black gay people and not the other way around."
I say that I do not think that the first anonymous poster was saying that at all. You have your own agenda and simply WILL NOT allow yourself to see the first anonymous posters point of view. Furthermore, you don't have to launch a nasty attack in an effort to lift your own comments to a higher level. You are an insecure person and obviously do not take kindly to the anonymous posters point of view (which is fine, but you don't have to try and make his statements invalid). I live in San Francisco and I fondly relate to what the first poster is saying.
You also said: "I'm really over the selfishness and narrow mindness of some black gay people. As I've said here before there are other races here besides black and white."
I say that you have a lot of issues that you need to work out, perhaps in therapy. I sense hatred in your comments. It is of grave concern to me. For example, you said: "Most black gay men I've met want to have nothing to do with white man besides a f**k."
I can only assume that you said this from personal experience. If so, please meet new people. That was an awful thing to say about "most black men" that you have met. Maybe it's you!
July 28, 2009 12:18 AM
For me, it comes down to the old problem of people talking sh!t but not doing sh!t.
So many black gays are complacent and bitter, expecting other people to take care of us. That may work when you're a child, but as an adult, you've got to step up and be proactive in your life!
Instead of blaming white people for not including us, we should be more active in the gay community and form our own organizations to address our specific needs. In my experience, white gay groups need all the help they can get and I have not been turned away when I've made myself available.
Rather than taking responsibility for our happiness, we find it easier to blame racism or say “I can’t let my mama/church/frat know about me” and stay in the closet or on the DL, clutching at Pride parties or online hookups to “let our hair down” for a few fleeting moments. Either way is using a victim mentality, which prevents us from facing the reality that only you can set yourself free.
Just look at how some closeted men vent at the people who are out of the closet, using any bit of drama to justify statements like “they’re messing it up for all the masculine brothas” or “that’s why I don’t mess with them queens.” When we should be supporting those who are living their lives without shame, we project our self-hate onto them and tear them down. It makes me wanna holler, they way we do ourselves!
Some will say “it ain’t fair” that black gays have to go through so much stress. But, honey, nobody ever said life was fair or that happiness was guaranteed to anyone.
Success in life isn’t about staying trapped in your problems, but what you do to overcome the obstacles. I can only conclude that too many of us are more comfortable living for other people’s expectations instead of trying to reach our own.
July 28, 2009 9:47 AM
"I say that I do not think that the first anonymous poster was saying that at all."
Alright then what is he saying?
"You have your own agenda and simply WILL NOT allow yourself to see the first anonymous posters point of view."
lol what? I see his view (thought according to you I may be wrong); I think it's very ignorant and self defeating.
Also you do nothing besides play internet psychologist in your comment so you should be the last one saying " you don't have to launch a nasty attack in an effort to lift your own comments to a higher level".
How about replying to my points and not making petty attacks like:
"I say that you have a lot of issues that you need to work out, perhaps in therapy. I sense hatred in your comments. It is of grave concern to me."
Oh thank you Dr. Phil.
"I can only assume that you said this from personal experience. "
lol what do you exactly think I meant by "I've met"?
"That was an awful thing to say about "most black men" that you have met. Maybe it's you!"
How is that a bad thing? I guess you can say it's a bit "racist" but if they don't want to have anything to do with white men besides sex but that's their choice.
I pointed out my experience because from my end I don't see what the first was saying.
July 28, 2009 4:22 PM
I opt to let this one go. You are very defensive and critical. You are also extremely insecure. The first anonymous poster hit the nail on the head. The replies from you and others to that original post explain a lot. I am glad that I see things differently. I will no longer question those stats I see about gay black men related to income, STDs, etc. I know understand why they are valid. Ignorance is bliss.
No more comments from me. I choose to let you wade in the waters of stupidity and self-hatred. Soon, you'll drown in those waters.
July 28, 2009 11:19 PM
"I opt to let this one go."
Okay, thanks Kimbo Slice.
July 30, 2009 1:09 AM
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