33
comments
|
Tuesday, May 11, 2010
This open thread was birthed out of a very spirited debate that caught me by surprise on a recent post on the blog and is actually long overdue to be discussed on the front page.
I along with many of you were frustrated that black gay men were not represented among the speakers at last weekend's National Equality March in D.C. and I believe it's a legitimate question to ask of NEM organizers as to why we weren't represented. But an even bigger question is why black gay men seem to be absent from the gay civil rights movement as a whole.
One loldarian.com reader offers his opinion:
"Simply put, black gay men just don't view themselves with the same self-love as white gays do. There is a wall of shame, fear, unhappiness, and denial that's holding us back. There have been no real initiatives within the black gay community to mobilize and address these problems. It's been every man for himself for a very long time and these are the results.
What's equally disturbing is the fact that some of us are so isolated and out of touch that they really think that black gays are ready to join the national fight in large numbers. You can't build a house on a weak foundation and you can't demand love & respect that you don't feel entitled to. We can lend our support to the movement, but if we ever really want to be on the same page as others we are going to have to address our inner issues."
Do you agree? Or is this just one of many problems the black gay community must address in order to step out of the closet and take ownership of our lives and demand a place at the table?
Don't hold back. Discuss.
33 Comments:
I am very, very, very disheartened and offended by the comments from the previous post and the assertion that we as Black's don't deserve the right to be EQUALLY represented in a march for EQUALITY because we haven't stepped up to the plate.
I am 24 years old, I came out when I was in the 9th grade. There has been no one to represent me as a gay black man other than myself. I shouldnt be made to feel like I should have to have to apologize for our numbers not being as high. Look at what we have working against us. Its not our fault our movement is in is infancy. Yes, we've got problems to work out and I feel like outlets such as this blog are moving us in the right direction.
The wrong direction being these foot shuffling negros perpetuationg this cycle of white folk blaming black folk for the fact that white folk left us behind in the first place.
Give me a break, it's ridiculous and shameful.
October 14, 2009 2:46 PM
Many black gay men seem to think that straight black people are going to just wake up one day and decide, all by themselves, that homophobia is an evil force in the world that must be destroyed. This is what I call magical thinking.
Black gay men will begin the process of dismantling homophobia in black constructs when they take some initiative and "come out" to family and friends and explain who they are.
Black gay men will continue to be misunderstood, disrespected and stereotyped until they do this.
October 14, 2009 3:00 PM
I responded to the post on my own blog:
http://blkindependent.blogspot.com/2009/10/well-why-was-there-not-many-black-males.html
October 14, 2009 3:01 PM
I agree that it's a deeply rooted self love issue that kept our outcome low. Most black gays just aren't ready to embark on the gay marriage fight yet.
But what I’d call “magical thinking” is attempting to push someone into a role that they aren’t ready for just for the advancement of your agenda. I find it to be a bit selfish for activists, black and white, to question our absence when up until now their presence has been all but absent. If they were active in our communities reaching out and uniting then they'd know why we weren't there in massive numbers. I totally agree with Aaron!! We have a lot of self-work to do but we definitely don’t have anything to be apologizing for.
October 14, 2009 4:44 PM
I am black and gay and while I believe in gay rights, on some level I feel a certain level of disconnect from it. If I had lived in the area, I may have joined in the march, however, I am from Georgia, with commitments and a full-time job. I can't just stop what ever I am doing for everything...
October 14, 2009 5:14 PM
While shame may have its place, it is not the defining element. For me the defining event is the lack of representation that BGM have in the "mainstream" gay culture. We don't come out and fight the gay fight 'cuz we ain't won the black fight yet!
I could go on but I'm saving the rest for a play/book I'm working on.
Peace!
http://berks.psu.edu/Academics/Degrees/theatrestaff.htm
October 14, 2009 6:31 PM
Yet some will drop everything to be at a circuit party.
Forget Civil Rights Movement for a sec, A BLACK gay man was murdered in DC.The murderer got 6 months jail time. Civil Rights Activists are outraged at this of cause. Except for one thing - I wonder how many of the outraged activists are black gays? Probably none or just a handful.
SMH.
October 14, 2009 8:28 PM
(1) Those damn Pride events should include EDUCATION, and stop the sex association with gay and blacks.
(2) I thought that it was interesting that the only black person on the committee was representing "diversity outreach." Damn, can't a black person be something other than defined by their race?
(3) Word to the black gay community, we need to start supporting those who support us. I have tried to stop homophibic, (Not even considering an agenda, just stop homophobia) and the black community wants to continue saying we are fighting pregnancy, low wages, high dropout, etc. I'm saying damn, when will we ever stop fighting these and why is homophobia held on until these pass--which they never will
(4) the black community has a way of using "black gay" money and not their mission.
(5) START supporting black gay events that are more than sex. IF this happens the political world will take notice. BUt, the problem is that the white political world will want to override the civil rights (which is needed) and use us to dismantle civil rights and then kick us to the cuve--this is Real.
October 14, 2009 9:03 PM
I see your point, there is really no excuse. We need to challenge ourselves come out here.
October 14, 2009 9:06 PM
Has our white gay counterparts ever really made us feel welcome...black gay men. I live in Houston and quite frankly I feel sometimes that my white gay counterparts ignore me or don't except me like an equal or maybe it's me and I can't relate with them. Even though we're gay, we still different culturally. I still believe deep down no matter what race will always be a factor, but not to say we black gays don't have our own issues.
October 14, 2009 10:55 PM
We all know that DC has a very large black gay community. But black gays were noticeably absent from the Equality March. Why? Because many black gays are still in fear and closeted. In fear and closeted because of our own homophobic straight black community. We are being suppressed and oppressed by our own straight black community and the black church. And we continue to let them.
It's time that we start fighting back. We're going to have to open the door of homophobia in our own community, confront it head on, and close it before we're able to open a new door and confront problems on a broader spectrum.
Why do we continue attending churches where they hate us and denounce us and we sit their and cringe and keep our mouths shut?
What we need is a black MLK. We had one in Bayard Rustin, but at that time he was fighting for the Black Civil Rights Movement. He even faced homophobia from blacks who he was helping to lead. It's going to be difficult but something is going to have to be done or we're always going to be closeted and living in fear.
But the sad part is we will benefit from any gains our white counter-parts have made without having made any contributions.
October 14, 2009 11:11 PM
Anonymous, I agree with you one hundred percent. I've always believed that white gays appear to be just as racist or even more so than straight whites. That's what upsets me when they compare their (white gay struggle) with the Black Civil Rights Movement because they are just as racist towards blacks as straight whites. But it still stands to reason that black gays will benefit from whatever gains are made from their efforts.
October 14, 2009 11:40 PM
This is ridiculous. I'm a twenty-three year-old black "gay" man and find it disgusting that older generations of black "gay" men have failed to set an adequate example for my generation of men. Who are we to turn to? Who are we to really emulate and venerate? The work of existing in the world as a "gay" black man is already difficult enough. Must we also do it without a pair of guiding hands and words of encouragement? Us younger "gay" men are looking for leadership, want it desperately, but can't seem to find it. I challenge older "gay" men to stand up. Take charge of your village. Stop complaining about the pervasive apathy of my generation when you, yourselves, are doing very little to lessen the painful silences of your own existence. How dare you?
And while it is true that we as black men have a plethora of things working against us, we simply can't use those things as a crutch to not do what we ought to be doing for ourselves and our communities, and for our own souls. I'm tired of the excuses. Forget about white people and what they are or aren't doing for us. Have we not learned we cannot wait on them?
October 15, 2009 2:50 AM
It's time for some honesty and self-reflection in the Black GLBT community. This community needs to heal itself BEFORE condemning the white gay community, or even Brothas and Sistas for their lack of understanding on equality. Like I have said in an earlier blog post; the fight for equality starts at home. The problem is we as GLBT people of color as a whole don’t want to step out from the house.
I can’t imagine why the black gay community isn’t willing to tap into that inner strength that’s engrained in us as a people when it comes to the need to fight for our basic human rights!
The straight community KNOWS what they’re doing when they attempt to stir up this faux outrage about the white GLBT community not reaching out to the Black Community. The truth of the matter is many black GLBT people won’t even stand up to make themselves count when it comes to fighting for our civil rights. Sometimes, I just shake my head in sadness when I hear our people make statements or references about the white GLBT community not being able to “connect” with us, or their so called “lack of understanding” when it comes to the needs of the Black GLBT community.
HELL, THEIR FIGHT IS OUR FIGHT TOO!! (or at least SHOULD be)
Why should the white GLBT community have to sit around and WAIT for us to assert OURSELVES in becoming viable voices amongst our own people and stand up for being who and what WE are?
Why should the white GLBT community have to “baby” us because we are too timid to live our lives openly because we’d rather hide behind the same old, “I’m an oppressed Black Man” mantra and refuse to rise to the level of empowerment needed to actually make a difference?
Now be honest with yourself; if the shoe was on the other foot, would WE sit around and wait until THEY were at a level in which they were comfortable to present themselves as proud White Gays & Lesbians amongst their families, churches, workplaces, and social settings when there’s a fight for equality and civil rights on the line?????
(uhm hmm, some of ya’ll are probably sitting in your chair lying to yourself right now)
The infighting alone within the black GLBT community is reason why I believe the white gay community should NOT have to sit on their hands and WAIT until we are on the same page with them. WE NEED TO STEP OUR GAME UP! If the Black GLBT community feels as if they are not involved in the equality process, more than likely its because we don’t make enough effort to become involved (yet we find time and energy to make excuses as to why we can’t). If the black GLBT community can’t do their OWN outreach into our communities, churches, families, workplaces, and other social settings; why blame white folks? Why SHOULD they include us in the credit if we aren’t there for the struggle? Brothas & Sistas we have GOT to do better, seriously.
October 15, 2009 8:23 AM
One problem we've always had within the black community is the sense that we look outward (meaning "white people don't... or white people haven't...) rather than looking inward. We need to stop allowing what white people (gay or otherwise) have done to excuse us from the struggle. We can't continue to sit back and allow others to fight for us. If you don't feel invited to the table, set your own table. I'm just tired of all of the excuses we make for not getting involved. Like SoulKid said, black folks will travel from state to state for a party but not for equality.
What's that saying about glass houses and stones?
October 15, 2009 9:03 AM
In answer to your question "Why Are Black Gay Men Absent From The Gay Civil Rights Movement?" I think the answer is two-fold. One reason and the foremost reason I believe Gay Black Men are absent from the Gay Civil Rights Movement is because of internalize homophobia. With the exception of a number of men, I feel many Black Gay Men are ashamed to be homosexual. Their reasons can range from their church upbringing to the outrageous stereotyping of homosexuals through the media. Closer to home, the negative attitudes of the effeminate males who were raised in their black neighborhoods being called sissies, punks, girls is embedded to their psyche. Next, I believe a lot of Black homosexual men are comfortable with their personal lives with the exception of many of them not having a relationship. Many Gay Gay Men are working, have a house or an apartment and money to do things, what more do they need. With the exception of a number of Gay Black Men, many aren't interested in getting married, legal adoption or passage of a National Hate Crime Bill, many simply feeling comfortable with the laws in place for a criminal committing a crime no matter what his sexual orientation is.
October 15, 2009 9:10 AM
Cleon has hit the nail directly on its head!! for whatever reasons gay black men aren't interested in gay marriage and so on. Most, in some way or another really feel that being gay is wrong and would change it if they could. The evidence is everywhere! How many long term black gay couples do any of you know? How many gay blacks show up to pride events for the club vs the educational seminars? A good percentage of black gay men aren't looking or hoping to benefit from the current gay rights movement. And those who are have already rolled up their sleeves and gotten involved.
I would also assume that the gay rights movement is a blanket intiative intended to benefit ANY person of ANY race who identifies themselves as being gay, no matter what role they played in the actual movement. It's absolutely asinine for people to believe that the movement should only be beneficial to one specific race of people because they did most of the work. Need you be reminded of all of the benefits created for ALL races by the black civil rights movement!! By now, history should have already taught US ALL to STOP trying to keep up with whitey and focus on the matters of our OWN homes first
October 15, 2009 10:22 AM
Cleon said:
“I believe a lot of Black homosexual men are comfortable with their personal lives with the exception of many of them not having a relationship. Many Gay Men are working, have a house or an apartment and money to do things, what more do they need. With the exception of a number of Gay Black Men, many aren't interested in getting married, legal adoption or passage of a National Hate Crime Bill, many simply feeling comfortable with the laws in place for a criminal committing a crime no matter what his sexual orientation is.”
Cleon, you really said it right there Brotha!
Black Gay men on the whole has embraced complacency and therefore feel as if they don’t “rock the boat”, they won’t mind accepting the bare minimum of equal rights since many of these types of men would rather just “blend in” with the mainstream black community rather than being viewed as equal with their heterosexual counterparts.
Many of these types of men would view men like myself (or others who are more outspoken within the black community) as nuisances or “boat rockers”, since the mentality for a majority of them believes that being silent and content with mediocrity is far better than being exiled and rejected from society, specifically the black community and/or family.
This apathy or the acceptance of the bear minimum is the very types of issues that can ONLY be handled by the black GLBT community alone. We as more outspoken Gays & Lesbians can’t sit here and expect other communities to “reach out” and connect with us when we can’t find a connection amongst ourselves.
Placing the blame on whites, perpetuating the feminine male vs. masculine male battle, or over - amplifying the hyper-sexualized side of our community will only prolong our standing within the black community to become better respected as well as expose the vulnerabilities and weaknesses we have when it comes to self empowering GLBT people of color.
If we can’t become our own helping hand; we as GLBT people of color shouldn’t expect anyone else to lend theirs as well.
October 15, 2009 10:41 AM
I visited DC this past weekend (from New York City).
I went because it was a 3-day weekend and to party at the Batchelors Mill and the Eye Bar. The boys were looking like something up in the Eye Bar.
I saw the white gay kids walking around Dupont Circle with signs and posters after the big White March. They were a mess. A lot of them are just as racist as can be.
Besides being gay, I have nothing in common with those people.
October 15, 2009 2:21 PM
It seems as though we are stuck between a rock and a hard place as gay Black men. For me, I RESPECT and highly EXALT my Blackness, my African and African-American history, etc., but I don't necessarily identify with the majority of Black people mainly because they have always made me feel different, alien and other. I also don't identify with White gay men because of race, class and other issues that underlie those constructions. Because of all of this, I just continue to do me, and pray that I can be of help to Black gay movements that are about something. I agree with most of what I have read so far. The solution starts from within the Black gay "community." I think our issues will take a long time to be resolved.
October 15, 2009 2:42 PM
the short truth is that black gays are NOT WELCOME in the gay community just as they are NOT WELCOME in the black community.
they are NOT invited to the march to speak the same way they are NOT invited to the black church to speak. its that simple.
WE ARE WELCOME NO WHERE.
October 15, 2009 3:43 PM
Also as Cleon said, there are a number of self-deprecation issues along with the lack of pursuit from a number of black SGL men to get into a long-term relationship. This nixes any desire for same-sex unions. These men are the types where you will see taking pride in their ability to assimilate rather than be an individual of their own right.
On a sociological standpoint, it is very difficult for non-white ethnicities to maintain any type of standing in society so collectivism is more prevalent. If you add being a homosexual behaviors into the mix it creates an environment where these non-white SGL individuals crave that acceptance from their fellow members of their ethnic community.
Honestly, this cycle is very difficult to change because you have these double barriers, so overcoming them is a task that takes time. This problem is occurring as well in practically all non-white ethnic communities in some shape or form. However, you should never expect change overnight because it took nearly 5 decades for the LGBT movement to get as much momentum as it has now.
Still the point stands that the mainstream (white) LGBT community issues with racism towards people of color where they need to do more outreach on other things such as STD/STI prevention...
October 15, 2009 3:47 PM
To answer a poster's comment upthread about "where are the older black gay men?" Well, I would say that many of them died during the AIDS epidemic. Therefore, for the most part, we are flying blind. Many of us don't have a guide book...
That's why I believe in getting information from the white gay community and using it to fit my needs and issues. It is time to use some creative ingenuity as opposed to relying on apathy.
Black gay men need to come out (and stop using straight black people's homophobia as a crutch) and demand to be treated equally and fairly. Stop treating gay life as one big sex party and perhaps we can be the change that we seek.
October 15, 2009 6:45 PM
I somewhat don't care about gay rights. as a gay black man, I care more about equal opportunities in career, healthcare, financial stability, and education.
October 15, 2009 7:25 PM
One of my younger gay brothers was inquiring about where the older black gay men are. Well you know, sometimes it takes the younger people to get things changed and to get the ball rolling. It was really young America who put our first black president in office. You all are the ones with the power and the fresh new ideas. Sometimes older people are too stuck in their ways to make any kind of a meaningful change.
We shouldn't have to worry about being accepted in anyone else's community. We have enough black gays in the country to develop our own meaningful viable black gay community. Who knows the problems that face us better than we do? Lord knows we already have our own social outlets in place where we gather as a community. Now all we need to do is to be as passionate about other things that go into establishing the advancement of our black gay interests.
Any black gay journalist or editors out there who may be interested in starting black gay newsletters in their communities. That sounds like a good place to start. Could write about events happening in your towns concerning black gay events, HIV awareness and how to protect yourselves, how to deal with homophobia from friends and family. There's a number of things that could be included in the newsletter concerning us as gay men and women. Just a suggestion.
October 15, 2009 8:09 PM
@Toddy English said:
"To answer a poster's comment upthread about "where are the older black gay men?" Well, I would say that many of them died during the AIDS epidemic."
My response:
All of us did not die out during the AIDS epidemic. Although many of the friends I made from the 1970s died in the AIDS epidemic, some of them ARE STILL ALIVE and thriving. lol
I'll admit that I don't have any thing to do with younger black gay men. I never thought they wanted any direction from older black gay men. The black gay world of today seems so totally oriented towards youth and hypermasculinity and I don't feel comfortable in that world.
The idea that some younger black gay men want direction from older black gay men is a surprise to me.
Unfortunately, because there is no organized black gay community there is no systemic way for older and younger black gay men to get together and, perhaps, enrich each others lives.
October 16, 2009 12:49 AM
the self hate among blacks is real. There is also an unwillingness to identify with the "extreme" parts of gay culture.
which creates a vicious cycle, of allowing only the extremes to be seen.
the black church and church guilt is huge. So many people i know refuse to leave churches that preach that they are going to hell. words matter, if they didnt, then why go to church?
and, there is a lot of racism, by omission from the white gay community. I am not your fetish. White men, tend to believe their worldview, is the worldview. they blame blacks for Prop * failure, but didnt do anything to include blacks or to get involved in issues that effect us. AIDS is destroying the black community, but white gays act as if they are the only ones who are impacted by the disease.
http://twitter.com/ucy_Sean
October 16, 2009 12:50 AM
1) Wright,,,,
hmm, so you want to blame older gay blacks? funny.
90% of the time i try to be social friends with younger gays, they assume i want to sleep with them and are dismissive. they definitely dont listen to advice, because anyone over 30 in the black gay world is OLD! gasp!
the age issues need everyone involved to deal with them. You guys dont know how different times were, its easy to stand on a soap box from where u stand.
2)I always have said that BLACK GAY PRIDE should have things that focus on couples also. like an annual formal or semi-formal event that is affirming of the long term relationships.
http://twitter.com/ucy_Sean
October 16, 2009 12:57 AM
“That's why I believe in getting information from the white gay community and using it to fit my needs and issues. It is time to use some creative ingenuity as opposed to relying on apathy.”
^^ Great point Toddy!!
Its just heartbreaking to see that the black gay community somewhat as a whole feel as if they are not worthy of equality in its ENTIRE sense because we would rather hide behind the defense of racism as being the #1 reason we don’t want to assert ourselves in being respected as men who are black AND gay, when there’s already an abundance of rights and protections in regards to race that is signed into law.
What MORE do we need to fight for in terms of racial equality that we aren’t getting now?
What MORE could blacks obtain in terms of the law that is preventing us as a black community from living full and productive lives?
Its mind boggling to me that when we as black men have discussions about the need for the black community accept and respect as equals, we are entirely too quick to become defensive and run in behind them because we feel as if we have to choose our allegiance to either being black OR gay, but fail to realize that we can be BOTH and demand equality in ALL aspects of our lives.
The repression that we as SGL black men experience I believe is more self induced rather than brought on by other social factors.
Its engrained within us as a black community to fight injustice and exhibit a high levels of pride for ourselves as well as our Brothas & Sistas.
However when it comes to displaying this same level of dignity within the black GAY community, its an energy that is almost non-existent and attempts to motivate this type of energy into us seems to be met with resistance.
Our psyche has to change if we are to ever progress as a gay community. Waiting on the white community to do the work for us will only diminish our standing as viable people who can make a difference within our own communities.
October 16, 2009 5:49 AM
Is this problem limited to gay black men only, or is this a gay minority issue? Because from what I can see it doesn’t look as if many other ethnic groups were well represented either. So why do the blacks have to come under fire? It’s obvious to a duck that gay rights is just not a priority at this time. That doesn’t mean that it can’t or won’t ever become one. So why do we feel the need to beat ourselves up over it? I’m not concerned with keeping up with the Jones’. No one has the right to dictate to us what the speed of our progression should be. I’m not rushing into anything to appease anyone and I refuse to be made to feel bad about it.
October 16, 2009 10:50 AM
Hello Darian,
I cannot begin to tell you how disappointed, no sickened I am by the comment included and tone used in your post.
Once again another blogger plays America's favorite pastime; what's wrong with the negroes. This week we are treated to the special gay edition of this very popular game.
Sorry folks, I personally don't know Black gay men who hate themselves, travel to the mentioned parties, have low self esteem, etc. and if I did - I still would not paint every Black Gay man as having thoses issues.
Darian, you had an opportunity to showcase some of the positive things with the Black Gay men's community. There are organizations,clubs, publications and plan everyday gay folks of color living, loving and being.
Not that I got my anger under control, I hope to visit this post again to rethink and address some of the many comments you received.
Oh and about the Equality March, there weren't any Black people at the recent tea party protests either. What ills of the Black community was the cause of that?
October 17, 2009 10:56 PM
@givepeace05401
I'm gonna make this short and sweet because judging from your comment either you don't frequent my blog or you're completely delusional about the issues many LGBT people of color face.
This post was not written to place blame or be divisive, nor was this the tone of the post. There are plenty "leaders" within the black gay community who have built their reputations on doing this very thing and I'm not one of them.
Did you even read any of the comments that proceeded yours? This post provided an opportunity for us as a community to talk about the challenges we face as we struggle to live our lives free from shame and homophobia.
In any given week you can read stories on this blog that uplift and empower same gender loving people. Have you seen the Coupled Up series?
This was not a time to pat ourselves on the back and say congratulations when many of us are trapped in the closet, dealing with internalized homophobia, and running back to churches and communities that are convincing many of us that we are subhuman and worthy of nothing more than second class citizenship.
Kudos to you if the grass is green in your pasture. Hopefully you're on the front lines doing your part. Because there is a new civil rights movement happening in this country and many people of color are sitting on the sidelines. And that's a fact.
October 17, 2009 11:29 PM
Sorry, But I have to say this. First of all I am a Puerto Rican gay male in a 14 year relationship. Yes, I believe that blacks and hispanics (of which I can say I am a part of) are for the most part absent from the Gay rights movement.Not all, but It is all too common for blacks and hispanics to be on the " DL" and nothing else. There is a severe lack of progress within us as a community. I have been to countless clubs and in chats for the last 15 years..and the lack of relationships is astounding. That is not to say that we do not have relationships..long term ones at that. I and countless others are proof to the contrary. It is to say that we have to begin to understand that being GAY is a part of who we are. a big part, and one that we can't run away from. I grew up in the "inner city projects" and know that being out and gay is something that for most is a huge task. But one that can be overtaken. I can only put the information out there...and hope that at least one other person can relate..and be free of the fear of being stigmatized...whether at home or work. It's not an easy thing. At all, but it is doable. There are societal, familial and religous obstacles. One day we'll overcome this hurdle...as we did the Civil rights hurdle. The gay life IS more than just clubs and sex and hardbodies. I won't say that it isn't fun and a part of self discovery to have sex and go clubbing...its the norm even in the heterosexual population. We just need to keep moving forward and keep teaching that who we are...isn't a stain, abnormal or anyones else's right to take away from us.
www.Twitter.com/TweetwithStone
October 24, 2009 9:39 PM
<< Home