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Tuesday, October 21, 2008
"Some gay men feel somewhat bad that they are gay because of how it impacts women. However, most gay men don't think twice about how their "gayness" affects women, nor are they moved by the women who wink at them or try to "convert them", nor do they care that they are a statistic that makes, "all good men are either married, gay or in jail" a valid statement.
The above statement is taken from a book written by a relatively new black female author who sent me a copy of her book to review and promote on this site. The name of the book and the author will remain unnamed for now. However, I felt compelled to address the content within as I discovered some of it to be misinformed and rooted in stereotypes.
I'm aware that I have a strong female readership and many times you ladies don't comment but choose to e-mail me instead. Well today I'm opening up this post specifically to you.
A few questions
1)What do you really think when you see a black gay man?
2) Have you ever thought to yourself,"What A Waste" and meant it?
3)If you're single have you found yourself blaming the lack of eligible black men on "the gay epidemic".
4)Have you dated or married a gay man with hopes of converting him?
To my brothers- Should we care what they think?
Alright everybody try not to jump in all at once. This is my first open thread so don't let me down.
14 Comments:
Hello Darian,
I am a gay black male who is not completely out to most people but would have no problem coming out to women or men who ask. It is personal and it should remain so since they attach a sexual stigma to it. The gay lifestyle is not just about sex.
We have more to give to this society than what str8 propose about our lifestyle.
My high school girlfriend found out through the grapevine that I was gay and we are now on a friendly basis and speak every now and then. I have a friend who is a white woman who love my partner and I due to who we are but not what we are.
There are women that will try to change gay men but that will still happen regardless and you have to make a decision of whether you will let it bother you or not.
I feel for them but this is your life and you have the right to live it as you choose like they do-NO IF,ANDS,Or BUTS about it.
I am a masculine-acting gay male so I do get mistaken for being str8 and because I am assumed to be str8 and single then they will try to pick me up or have one of their single friends do the same.
Women in general I think love gay men since we think as they do and have a deeper understanding of what goes on inside their head. More so than most str8 guys.
October 21, 2008 7:25 AM
The phrase "all the good black men are married, gay or in jail" is homophobic and feeds the hysteria of some straight black women over not being able to find "quality" black men.
The aforementioned phrase presupposes that all black men who are not straight SHOULD be straight and that being a black gay man is a "waste". It also presupposes that there is competition between straight black women and black gay men for a scarce resource - black men. There can be no competition between straight women and gay men because if a man is totally straight he will not have sex with a man, no matter what. If a man is 100% gay, no woman can have him. If he's bisexual, he's up for grabs because he's going to have sex with women AND men, NO MATTER WHAT.
The phrase "all the good black men are married, gay or in jail" is indicative of a homophobic/heterosexist mindset that says all black men SHOULD be straight and if he's not straight he is a "demon" helping to destroy a straight black woman's chance to start a two parent family. In other words, we black gay men are supposedly contributing to the "decline of the black family". This is BS.
Straight black people who have children must do a better job of raising their children, especially their male children. Approximately 70% of black children are born out of wedlock. The way most straight black people today approach family life is dysfunctional to say the least. I say to straight black people of both sexes, don't blame black gay men for the mess they are creating.
When straight black women talk/write about the shortage of quality black men, they should LEAVE BLACK GAY MEN OUT OF THE EQUATION ENTIRELY. I was born gay. My being gay has absolutely nothing to do with any black woman's inability to find a "quality" black man.
In answer to your question, yes we should care when their misconceptions about black gay men fan the flames of homo-hatred. And we (you) should loudly voice our disagreement.
October 21, 2008 9:29 AM
Hi, Darian,
I asked my best friend, who is a white female your questions but changed the race to WGM instead of BGM. Her answers were enlightening. She believes that women who are insecure and cannot keep a man are the ones who are the haters.
If a woman has no problem keeping a man she could care less if she bumps into one who meets her qualifications but is gay. She just moves on. Whereas a woman who is insecure constantly complains about the "shortage" of men or the best ones being taken 'cause her insecuries or her neediness drives men away.
She pointed out the differences by way of Jennifer Aniston, who can't seem to keep a man and Angelina Jolie, who has no problem getting a man. Jolie could probably care less if Pitt left, 'cause she can get another man. Whereas Aniston simply comes off as clingy and insecure. Men repeatedly say they do not want a women who seems desperate or clingy. It puts them off.
I guess it all boils down to your confidence as an individual. People pick up on it(or lack thereof) and are attracted or repelled, as the case may be.
October 21, 2008 10:10 AM
Hey Darian,
As always I love your blog and the issue you present. Here are my thoughts.
As a SGL man, I don't think we should care. We say we care what they think it's like we're saying we had a choice in the matter. We can't choose who we are. I'm not sorry for being who I was born and created to be. While we can be respectful and have healthy dialogue, in the end again we are who we are. Those women who think they have the “good good" to change a gay man are only setting themselves up for failure. When we allow people to say all the good men are in hail or gay, it's like we are saying there is something wrong with being gay. Like being gay is a sentence like being sent to prison. Most of those in prison are there because of their own actions, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Being gay is a matter of birth not choice or actions. That is almost, wait no... that is an insult to compare my orientation to that of a criminal. Those of us who are open are should be applauded for being honest open and courageous instead of living in deceit and fear. If we move toward acceptance and honest discussion we can move past the notion, that some sisters have, that all black gay men are on the DL and we are out to make havoc of their lives and spread disease or that if we are not the stereotypical gay man seen in the movies we are trying to "fool" them. In short I'm living my life for me and Jesus and while I have love for my sisters and empathize with problem they may be facing, I could care less what they think about me being who I was created to be.
October 21, 2008 10:23 AM
Im fine with you boys as long as they do not openly flirt with my fiancee who is very good looking man. I would think that way with anyone that it is rude but some gay men think that is ok behavior.
Its not. Its so tackless. Keep your hands off other people's property and have some dignity!
October 21, 2008 1:17 PM
hmmm, interesting questions I would LOVE to see the answers...
October 21, 2008 1:41 PM
Hello to put my two cents in...Ok what do I really think when I see a black gay man? Well for some I cant tell just tell by going off the sterio types, but for the ones that is obvious I think I rather have them be who they are and not mislead others, based upon fear,or greed .I respect those who are comfortable in there on skin. I know our society has made it difficult on some levels..But everybody has something we have to fight against. I say Just Do you...SomeBody Will Love you know matter what..
I feel a man being gay shouldent be the focal point of who he is .. I want to know about the man, His morals, his values, is he humble, Love God and simply a Good person. Thats what matters, to me.
2 Have I thought of gay black men as a waste..no..But as a black woman who has seen an attractive straight looking man (when im single or horomonal..) I have thought Damn...ALL THAT!!..Like I wanna taste..lol But never Did i think a waste...
3 and no I dont think me being single is because all black men are gay...Frankly I wouldent want anyone who didnt genuiely want me for me..Meaning why sit at my table if the food infront of you is not what you eat?..And there is plenty of straight black men who want a black woman.
Now..I would say it that alot of black gay men really have there shit together..House is hooked..my gay black friends are gentleman, and respectful there educated with good jobs, and dress on point. So I think alot of women may wish that more Straight black men get it together and they can take a que from our gay black brothers(i know all are not together, but a great deal.)
4 no offense...but my "feel good" would never be in the form of tryin to change any one...a Gay Black man is my Brotha, NOt my Lova..lol So there is no need for convesion.
Im one of the female readers on D site and I i.m him often. I came to his site not because of his orientation but because of his intellegence, and from intellegence is growth, and acceptance. Now I cant even sit here as I write and say I understand a gay man..lol Im not Gay so to try in fully grasp every element is not a reality.
But I do know that we all have a common thread...that will forever link us..And that Love(im real, i aint tryin to sound corny) but GOd is love, and the bible says love thy neigbor as thy self..It didnt say first check out his orientation then love him...it just say love..
Look, God is the Judge,,and I gladly dont have a problem with him leading...Its not my place...
I do think some not all But u have some gay black men that can act as if they dont need a black woman..No matter what your sexual prefrence..Man need woman and woman need a man..lol I know all dont agree but hey..remember
this my 2 Cents..
Kisses....
October 21, 2008 2:10 PM
It's funny that you would post this, because just this past weekend I was at the mall with some of my straight friends who were talking to these girls. They told my braids looked nice and asked me who did them. When I said my boyfriend, their mouths dropped like I just said I was serial killer who planned to abduct them at knifepoint lol.
The usual responses came: "Why?" "You too cute to be gay?" "You should try a woman, you'll change your mind." What really tripped me out was that one of the girls was a lesbian! They were pretty young (around 15-17), so I pretty much excused them for their comments.
But anyways, as far as if we as black gay/bi men should care about what black women think about us, I think we should empathize with their struggle to find someone special, but not feel or be made to feel guilty or responsible if they can't find a man.
A woman who tries to change a gay man is only wasting her time. No matter how good your 'good good' is, it ain't happenin'.
October 21, 2008 4:56 PM
With the exception of those black women who's opinions I value, I could care less what black women think. My experience has been that the more enlightened ones get it and the others can "kick rocks"....
October 21, 2008 10:17 PM
I am an older blk man and I have always found it interesting that white women do not care about a person's sexual prefrence and evertime someone is outed or put under a microscope it is from a black female. Those are my experiences and it could be because of lack of available men, but sometimes a black female can be vicious about it, Let people be who they are without being persecuted !
October 22, 2008 8:32 AM
"Some gay men feel somewhat bad that they are gay because of how it impacts women. However, most gay men don't think twice about how their "gayness" affects women, nor are they moved by the women who wink at them or try to "convert them", nor do they care that they are a statistic that makes, "all good men are either married, gay or in jail" a valid statement."
What gives the black woman writer quoted above and other straight black women the idea that it is OK to make unwanted passes at gay men. Especially since many of them cannot take no for an answer, at least not gracefully. A black woman I used to work with made a crude pass at me. She knew I was gay because I had TOLD her I was gay. When I "rejected" her, she made a snide remark about my "never having seen a pussy except in pictures" (which was true). Another black woman advised me (I had also told this woman I was gay) that her "good-good" was so good it would turn me from gay to straight, if only I tried it. I never tried it and she ended up giving me a LOUD sermon at work in front of our co-workers(!) about becoming what "God intended me to be".
My point is that it is useless for a gay man to be "open" with some black women. She will see you as her very own "project". She will try to "convert" you and if she can't, she figures you are a "waste" AND she's going to tell all her girlfriends what a waste (faggot) you are. I've had this happen to me.
Ladies: Do not make passes at gay men. Especially when you know for a fact that he is gay. He doesn't want you. Don't take it personally. Being gay is NOT a choice regardless of what your preacher or someone else told you. Preachers can be wrong. When it comes to gay people, they usually are. Don't SEXUALLY HARRASS gay men. Why would you want someone who does not want you? Gay men and straight women can be FRIENDS, though, if you open up your mind and allow it to happen. if you cannot abide by these rules LEAVE ME ALONE.
October 22, 2008 2:44 PM
What do you really think when you see a black gay man?
I don't think I really care at this stage in my life. If they are cool, I'm cool. But if you are walking around disgruntled with the world, I'd probably keep on moving (but truth be told, that goes for any person no matter who they love). Most of the black gay men I know don't make it the central point of conversation because they are more than their sexuality. They are intelligent, funny, caring and to me that doesn't have anything to do with who they sleep with at night.
Have you ever thought to yourself,"What A Waste" and meant it?
No one is a waste...period.
If you're single have you found yourself blaming the lack of eligible black men on "the gay epidemic"
No...my being single is mostly by choice and the lack of quality brothers where I am located. And the lack doesn't have anything to do with the "gay epidemic."
October 22, 2008 5:03 PM
It's this whole culture of making passes that has everyone all Effed up!
October 23, 2008 1:34 PM
Darian...I have to admit this is a very interesting post. I have thought about is often because I've seen women who deserve a good man, and I can't help but feel guilty. I feel like I'm adding to the problem instead of helping. But, then I remember...I must live life and not a lie. I'm been blessed to be an educated brother who has is life together. I attracted a lot of attention from men and women. I usually don't tell women I'm gay...I usually tell them I'm just not interested, which has worked so far! The ones I feel closest with I let them know, and they are usually cool with it. I wish other women would understand you can't change a man...he has to live for himself.
October 28, 2008 9:31 PM
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