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Thursday, December 13, 2007
My Two Cents:
Before I begin to share my thoughts on this video, the minister, and what I believe to be a toxic theology that has manifested itself in black churches all over America I have to say this and forgive me for being so blunt, this is my blog and my thoughts herein. I don't ask for permission or require approval on anything I write or believe. If you don't like what you're reading then feel free to move along to a feel good blog that will not address the issues that directly impact our community. If you don't like what you see in this video then hopefully you're not sitting in silence while our lives as black gay and lesbians are being spiritually attacked from the pulpit, but are confronting this injustice head on. Are you?
I often write about the good and the bad of the black church because the church has always played a significant role in my life and I think the same can be said for most black people. Whether we continue to go to church as adults is a matter of personal choice but as a child many of us didn't have an option.
Not a week goes by that I don't hear from a young gay person who is struggling to reconcile his sexuality with his religion. Whether we choose to admit it or not most of the guilt and depression we experience when coming to terms with being gay is tied up in religion. The bible and Leviticus 18:22 has become a weapon used by the church to condemn gays and lesbians and convince us that we are loathsome and spiritually bankrupt. And what's so disheartening is that they've succeeded in many cases.
How many times have we attended services and heard messages like the one above and sat in our seats and felt uncomfortable but stayed silent? I'm guilty of it as well. Years ago I can remember being paralyzed by fear as I listened to ministers reduce my life to nothing...a mere biological and spiritual error at the hands of the devil.
How many times have we as gay and lesbian people decided to just walk away from the church completely because of the abuse, but yet refuse to entertain the idea of attending an LGBT affirming church? Meanwhile allowing ministers like Bishop Liston Paige to preach from his book of opinions and pass it off as the word of God to block our blessings.
This video makes me mad as hell! But what upsets me even more is when we can't discern the word of God from one man's twisted agenda and we accept the message as fact without researching the origin and intent of the scripture for ourselves. It's like the blind leading the blind.
Yes I was outraged when I saw this video. But guess what? Bishop Paige wasn't the first and regretfully he won't be the last. But we as black LGBT Christians or however you identify spiritually can decide to come out of the shadows of the choir stand, usher board, and yes... the pulpit and become examples of a true and living God in the lives of LGBT people and say enough is enough!
While silence is an approach that many of us are comfortable with, the old saying that if you continue to do as you've always done you will continue to get the same result couldn't ring more true.
I came across this video featuring a sermon by a virtually unknown minister(at least to me), or should I say a minister that doesn't have T.D. Jakes status by the name of Bishop Liston Page.I have some very strong feelings about the message he brings forth in this video, but for once I'm not going to write my opinion here for you to read but give you a chance to watch the video and formulate your own.
I challenged myself after watching this video not to let out my frustration in a fiery blog post and so far I'm sticking to it. But I can't promise once I make it back home to Atlanta from St. Louis tonight I won't let it all out.
I'm sure the comments are going to be interesting...bring em' on.
13 Comments:
Darian-
This is the PROBLEM we face as progressive Black people forget abot being gay for a minute. The BLACK CHURCH for the most part is so backwards and ignorant, and unfortunately they take advantage of a population of people that are uneducated, and not sophisticated. As gay men we know this, we se it time time and time again. U posting this seems pointless to me. I dont understand why we continue as gay men to give the hate mongers our attention, it pains me to hear it and se it, your posting, is POINTLESS, you are not going to change his mind or his church by posting this, as a young black gayman I do not find this enlighting or interesting its sad, its alomost as if you posted a picture of a black man hanging from a tree, , my point is thats its POINTLESS! STOP GIVING THESE PEOPLE ATTENTION, THEY DO NOT DESERVE OUR ANGER OR ATTENTION, GOD WILL DEAL WITH THEM. INSTEAD WHY DONT YOU FOCUS ON PEOPLE LIKE DESMON TU TU, WHO PREACHES LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING...
December 13, 2007 11:31 PM
Anonymous
There is definitely a reason why I posted this video.
I'm glad you've come to a place in your spiritual journey where you're not affected by messages like the one heard in this video, all black gays and lesbians aren't as fortunate and willingly sit through sermons like this Sunday after Sunday because they feel they have no choice for various reason. I know because I hear from them all of the time.
I said I was not going to give my opinion just yet and I won't, but thank you for getting the discussion started.
BTW, I often write about ministers who are open and affirming such as my own Pastor Clay Allen, Bishop Yvette Flunder, Bishop Carlton Pearson and others.
December 14, 2007 5:30 AM
Although I "grew up in the church" I stopped going MANY years ago because I could not accept the homophobia. Since I don't go to church except for funerals, I don't know what goes on there but if this is any indication it seems like the black church nowadays is little more than "entertainment". Was that guy trying to be a comedian or what? I found the squeezing a size 20 body into a size 6 dress and the cleavage "jokes" mildly amusing. Otherwise, I agree with anonymous, posted 12-14-07 @ 8:01 am, above.
If you, darian, are a LBGT activist then you have a pretty strong constitution. Some people are not as strong as you are and want (need!) positive reenforcement. Post a video from a gay or gay friendly church.
December 14, 2007 5:45 AM
"all black gays and lesbians aren't as fortunate and willingly sit through sermons like this Sunday after Sunday because they feel they have no choice for various reason. I know because I hear from them all of the time.
WELL:
THATS FINE DARIAN BUT STILL WHATS YOUR POINT IN REINFORCING THE HATE THAT THESE IDIOTS PREACH?
IS THIS SUPOSE TO MAKE THESE BLACKS AND LESBIANS YOU SPEAK OF FEEL EMPOWERED. ALSO THESE BLACK GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO WILLINGLY SIT THROUGH THESE SEROMNS YOU ARE FOOLS+ COWARDS! IM SORRY FOR THE LACK OF SYMPATHY BUT THIS IS 2007 IM SO SICK OF GROWN FOLKS ACTING LIKE VICTIMS ALL THE TIME, HOW ARE WE EVER GOING TO OVERCOME WHEN WE CONSTANTLY SIT BYE AND LET PEOPLE BEAT US DOWN. IM WRITING IN CAPS BECAUSE THIS IS HOW PASSIONATE AND ANGRY THIS MAKES ME. HOPEFULLY U WILL FEEL ME ON THIS.
December 14, 2007 7:03 AM
I get tired of anyone being able to get up and address a church. When I attend church, I want to be uplifted. I want a chance to praise with those who understand the human struggle. I want to rejoice in and learn about God's word, that gives me HOPE. However, this is the way BLACK CHURCHES will always be until they get back to the MAIN message of GOD. LOVE. I am soooooo tired of someone because they have some degrees thinking they have the right to tell me a GAY MAN, that I don't have the right to Praise God. Because, they don't say it right off, however it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know where they are coming from. Thats why its imperative that EACH and EVERYONE OF US develop a relationship a spiritual relationship. Because, the Universe, God, whateva angle you want to hit it from, Won't tell someone body else before he tells you. Whew.... look over my mispelled words and run on and everything else... but this really gets me going...
December 15, 2007 12:30 PM
Darian, when I was a kid I don't recall hearing preachers use homophobic words like "sissies" in church. I think that because black gays are starting (ever so meekly) to assert our right to be ourselves they feel more threatened than ever before.
Remember JL King's book about the down low. It begins with a scenario involving a man "cruising" another man IN CHURCH. These are perilous times: black preachers are calling black gay men out. Black preachers are saying to black gay men 'change to straight or get the hell out of our church'. This is not necessarity a bad thing. It will force those among us who still need to be "churched" to form their own BLACK GAY churches.
December 15, 2007 3:45 PM
Remember JL King's book about the "down low". There was a scenario where a man was cruising another man IN CHURCH. Black preachers are calling black gay men out. They are saying 'change to straight or get the hell out of our church'. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps it will force those among us who still need to be "churched" to form their own BLACK GAY churches. I know black gay churches already exist in several cities but there should be many more. Black gay churches should be in every city where black gays who go to church live.
December 15, 2007 3:54 PM
What a lot of so-called Christians fail to realize is that as a gay, black man who is also spiritual (and let me be clear: I am SPIRITUAL, not RELIGIOUS), I don't give a fuck what the bible says about homosexuality. My right to exist isn't contingent upon someone else's spiritual beliefs, or their narrow-minded interpretation of "natural law." Homosexuality is no longer a crime in the United States, nor is it considered a mental illness. Christians have absolutely no right to mitigate my very being through their so-called holy text. They certainly have the right to believe whatever they wish, but their rights STOP precisely where my nose BEGINS: my humanity supercedes their perceived "divine right" to oppress.
December 15, 2007 6:30 PM
It's sad to see hate continue to be preached from the pulpit, however what is sadder when SGL men and women sit through it, pay, their tithes, and come back the following Sunday without saying a word. We need to get over our own internalized homphobia and find an affirming church to uplift our spirits.
December 16, 2007 11:00 AM
...the bald guy keeps askin "WHY CANT WE ATTRACT MEN?? " when he is mincing around in a bright pink shirt with a white collar. Marshall McLuhan said "the medium is the message". to most people, he looks more like a gay preacher trying to get more men into his personal congregation.
..now as to why there are 17 women in his church for every man.. hmm... maybe cuz their asses are so big there is no where left for any men to actually sit ?????
... the overall message is not one of hate.. it is one of confusion especially where what the mind "sees" on the video is contradictory to the content of his spoken words. if u ask me.. its easy to spot the hypocritical dicksuckers in this church.. they seem to wear pink shirts.
December 18, 2007 10:08 PM
So the only thing I have to ask is this: Why is everyone so quick to bash Christian churches that "attack" homosexuality verbally, but no one dares to say anything negative about Muslims and their holy book which advocates KILLING gays and oppressing women? Everyone is so quick to attack the Bible, but not once have I heard anyone call a Muslim a homophobe or a narrow minded bigot.
May 17, 2008 12:23 AM
Darian-
Could it be that Liston Page is himself dealing with his sexuality and uses the pulpit to lash out at those who have made the decision that he himself can not seem to make? He does all that screaming and shouting but is really saying anything valuable?
It seems that he is a poor authority on this subject (or any subject)seeing as how his personal life is in shambles. Google his name. He needs to sit down somewhere. Then again, maybe that pink shirt means something after all. Either way, he is a mess of the highest order.
He IS the weakest link!
June 19, 2008 2:37 AM
I don't think that this or any other post on here are pointless. It is an issue so it needs to be discussed. Things change.Someone one might feel one way today and a different way the tomorrow. It could be these very posts that brings someone to change their mind on gays being in the church.
April 17, 2010 11:10 PM
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